Roll over bar

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angliamotorsport
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 2:00 pm

Roll over bar

Post by angliamotorsport »

Hello, I'm new to this forum and am currently building an Eleven for use in hillclimbs.
The build is basically standard apart from the engine and gearbox, 1.8 Zetec and 4 speed dog box.
The A series axle is retained but upgraded with 3J driveline LSD and uprated halfshafts.
I have been working through the ROPS with the MSA, (motorsport authority) here in the UK
and during the process I discovered that the MSA holds two certified approved ROPS certificates for the Eleven.
Anyway, to cut a long story short and despite the fact that I have a certificate from the MSA,
which in theory will allow me to have a ROPS made to the spec shown on the certificate, I cannot.
First of all the ROPS needs to be manufactured by the company that had it certified, understand that.
Also it needs to be to the drawing the certification was based on.
The certification was obtained when Chris Smith owned Westfield but since the company has changed
hands, the drawings can't be found and indeed may have been disposed of during the change of ownership.
I already have tubes of the correct blue book spec ready to be welded onto the car, after which it will
probably look like a scaffolder's lorry.
This was really a last attempt to enquire if anyone has a Westfield eleven that has the twin hoop ROPS fitted.
jonclancy
Posts: 942
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:30 pm

Re: Roll over bar

Post by jonclancy »

I can't help you with your ROPS question, but welcome to the forum!

There are a few past and present racers here. IIRC, their bars are all single hoop with support/brace strut. Hopefully someone will be along soon to pass on their experience.
adamwilkinson
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:17 pm

Re: Roll over bar

Post by adamwilkinson »

I believe only the original batch (1980's early 90's) are allowed to run with the hoop you are describing due to the certification. Ours is one of the originals and has this type of hoop, as shown in the photo. We have no forward bracing.
It has been picked up a couple of times by the scrutineers but on all occasions the chief scrutineer has allowed it due to the age of the car.

Are you running with a flat back of with the hump?

Speak to Alimaly or Eric Tharg on here as they both have fatter rollbars. Malcs roll bar is double width and allows passengers, Charles (Eric Tharg) is a single hoop requiring a forward diagonal brace for racing (bolt in jobby) but still allows passengers when removed.
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angliamotorsport
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Roll over bar

Post by angliamotorsport »

Thanks for the welcome and also the reply from Adam Wilkinson.

There are two styles of ROPS that are certified with the MSA and on file

I have spoken to them at length about it and have both certificates.

However in order to have a Certified ROPS manufactured and fitted, it
needs to be made by Westfield or their nominated supplier, Safety Devices
in England and that is ok with the MSA.

The certification is actually made out to Westfield, so that is why it would have to be
manufactured by them or their supplier.

There is not enough information contained on the certification document to
allow a replica of the ROPS to be made, so would need a proper dimensioned
drawing for this......Westfield no longer has this.

Safety Devices would make one if dimensions could be taken from an existing
certified style of ROPS but I guess finding one is a bit of a long shot.

Mine is a flat back.
erictharg
Posts: 680
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:50 pm

Re: Roll over bar

Post by erictharg »

I had the same dilemma when I decided to race my Eleven. Almost gave up until I got to speak with the technical director of the MSA at the motorsport show. He asked me to sketch what I had in mind and and said I wouldn't have any problems and if I did to refer the scrutineer to him.
In practice scrutineers want you to race and as long as the ROPs looks well designed and engineered they are very unlikely to challenge it. I never had a single comment about the design I made an fitted, and it was a much stronger and safer design than the original certified Westfield version. Make sure you use cold drawn seamless tube. I used 45mm for the main hoop with 40mm for the diagonal and forward strut, which complied with then current Blue Book specs. I also ensured that each mounting point had the minimum 3 off 10mm HT bolts, and that the strut to main hoop joint met Blue Book requirements. Rollcentre in St Neots who are pretty local to me bent the main hoop and provided the tube.
The original Westfield design could easily be replicated (but I would at least go up a size in tube for the hoop) and I'm sure you'd have no problems with it. However I didn't feel it offered sufficient protection. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.
StephenH
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Roll over bar

Post by StephenH »

Simon Marks has details of the Westfield braced hoop that fits under the Le Mans style head fairing. So he may be able to help you.
seajayare
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:28 pm
Location: Wiltshire, UK

Re: Roll over bar

Post by seajayare »

Hi, did you come up with a solution in the end? I am looking at the same problem and hoping to piggy back on your work.
cheers
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