Single Cockpit Body Work

[stricor]

Does anybody have acces to grp panels for the single cockpit?
I have the possibility to get moulds and products made.
only thing is the perspex screen.

Thanks Cor

[jonclancy]

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what the answer is from WSC's original supplier.

I'm assuming that it is a reworked scuttle panel that sits on top of the rear firewall? In other words, a one-piece affair.

If not, then perhaps you need something like this:

http://www.andywiltshire.com/web%20site ... 20page.htm

I can think of a couple of people who would be able to do this sort of work to the highest standard.

[bobwhittaker]

I would have thought the ideal would be panels that simply utilise the existing scuttle and passenger door and use a replacement angled flange to carry the new screen . This would enable the configuration to be changed at will . Another simplification would be to do away with the perspex screen and incorporate a deflector section as part of the mounting flange ( As with many present Catrhams ) . Ducati did this with some of their sports bikes where there wasn't a " See Through " section and for MOT purposes as you have to have a forward view without looking through the screen , thus if there is no screen as such and you see over the top of the deflector as you see over the present screen no problem exists . Obviously this all needs someone who can produce a buck from which a mould can be taken to replicate , this is not within my skills !!!!

[Westfield 129]

The idea is to duplicate the original single seat LeMans configuration.

It's actually pretty easy if one has a car available with the desired bodywork. The body can be scanned and a mold made for a much more reasonable rate than a one off alloy body. The entire alloy body costs run around $25K from the well respected tin benders here in the US. I imagine that the cost would be about the same in the UK.

The windshield is the easy part.

The bodywork that is needed includes a new scuttle, doors and the rear body section. Changing just the windscreen is problematic, as you would have lots of open holes, and the degree of difficulty to make the change would be pretty high.

The only way to do this is the way that it has always been done; with a duplicate body kit.

I have seen several W11s with the desired single seat bodywork. However, there has been virtually no real demand for the configuration. If there were, the kit would be available, just as the rear section with, or without, the head rest fairing. It is seriously difficult to get in and out of, and is also a little anti social. I know that my wife doesn't share quite my level of enthusiasm for wind in the face motoring. In fact, I don't know anyone who does...

I am about to begin the restoration of my personal W11 and I have been considering the single seat bodywork as well. How many owners want the streamline LeMans type body? How much would you pay for it?

[jonclancy]

That's the $10 000 question.

Look at what WSC charge for body panels. That is not really representative of a small run, including development costs. I know about those...

Also, consider the design. I recall a US-based car having gentle criticism levelled against it because the rigid tonneau sat on top of the cockpit edges.

I haven't seen an original single-seater to compare, but I think it mag be possible to achieve the effect with a modified scuttle piece. Use Jan's fixing mod and you could swap configurations quickly enough.

Loaded Gunn have just produced some moulds for (IIRC) an Elva. The amount of work/time/cost that goes into something like this cannot be underestimated. But, that cost could be aggregated.

Anyone got any thoughts about copyright if you used the WSC scuttle as a starting point?

As Jan said, the windscreen could be produced using a buck and the drape method. Probably...

[biggles]

A few thoughts:

Copyright shouldn't be a problem as the shape of the scuttle is a copy itself, and was produced by Westfield 30 plus years ago. You can't copyright a copy ISTR. And we have been polite and asked to spend some money with them and they can't supply...

Am I right in thinking that the scuttle panel is not a compound curve apart from the windscreen mounting fillet?

Bending ones own perspex doesn't look too difficult once we have a plaster former - loads of vids on youtube showing how to do it with an oven or heat gun.

Anyone in the States asked Curtis Unlimited if they have anything? Ok I know it would prob be left hand drive config but screen mounting fillets etc might swap over?

Regards all
Biggles

[stricor]

My goal would be to leave the car as it is.
When I go racing i want to undo the wrap around screen front and side and mount the single cockpit body work as a complete grp piece.
This will be atached to the front scuttle and the existing doors.
I would have thought if Westfield had ever done anyting it would be like this.
If anybody has anything to which helps to make this it would be nice otherwise i am on my own.
It is not the most difficult shape to make but it is always easyer to replicate something......
In a world of copies i do not see issues with copyright.

Regards Cor

[jonclancy]

As Cor says, really.

Once centre piece, a couple of slide fasteners. The original door shoot-bolts and bonnet fasteners will help keep everything in place.

How much would a reasonable price be for such an item? Or put it this way, how much would you be happy to pay?

[Splat]

I'm not sure that Jan isn't causing some confusion here. There is a big difference between the Le Mans bodywork and the single-seat body.

Le Mans rules dictated a two-seat body. In order to improve aerodynamics the factory team cars had certain changes made. The full-width screen was increased in height, as was the whole centre section of the rear bodywork, which was manufactured with an integral head-fairing. A tight tonneau cover was then stretched over the requisite passenger seat, from the top of the screen to the raised rear deck. It was a typically innovative interpretation of the rules.

The pure single-seat bodywork wasn't eligible for Le Mans, but was for many other classes and events. I don't think that any of us want the Le Mans bodywork, it being a far less elegant (read; bloated) version of what most of us already have.

The single-seat bodywork is undeniably anti-social and a real pain to enter and egress (I've tried it on a real one!). And removing the screen will leave many unsightly holes in the scuttle panel. My ideal solution would be as follows:

A wholly new scuttle panel with the passenger seat fairing moulded as an integral piece. The scuttle is easily removed (cue Jan telling us about his QR fittings!) and could be swapped in ten minutes flat. Each scuttle panel (two-seat or solo) retains it's own screen (full-width or wrap-around) with no need for replacement. The drivers door retains it's window, only requiring the removal of the passenger window. Small grommets fill the holes left by it's removal. Thin self-adhesive foam padding on the outboard and trailing edge of the passenger-seat fairing allow it to be supported on the lip of the door and the rear deck without damage. Being moulded with the scuttle panel ensures that it needs no further support. The single-seat scuttle would also have it's own rear-view mirror (a simple bullet-type).

Conversion from one to the other would take about half an hour, the longest process being the removal/re-fitting of the passenger door window.

[Westfield 129]

I have thought of just fabricating a hard tonneau, with a hatch that can slip behind the seat, for the emergency super model transport (should one ask for a ride) and leaving the full width windshield. It would be easy to add a single wrap around for just the driver. However, this would be a really hot setup in the summer... Probably not anything that you would drive twice here in Sunny California.

Or simply using a second standard scuttle or one duplicated in alloy. This is a relatively simple piece to duplicate, and I have already done one with an alloy firewall. This will allow a wrap around screen, with a second set doors to match. Fiddling with the screen fasteners at the doors is no fun. Just swap them out. Doors could be done in alloy as well, or simply purchased from Westfield.

Entry could still be done with the drop down door.

One thing to remember if you go for a single cockpit setup. Make sure that your exhaust system is tight. Quite a few owners have become sick driving the W11 with the open cockpit and an exhaust leak. If you find that you are especially tired after driving your 11, you might check out the exhaust for leaks. That slip joint at the header is a good place to start. I use a Marmon clamp or a thee bolt flange. CO can get you in an open car as easily as in a closed one.