Ignition Woes

[jonclancy]

I changed out the plugs (NGK to Champion, properly gapped) and have located a spare dizzy to rob the baseplate from (to convert back to points while this Lumention issue is ongoing). Idle is smooooth and she revved up to 3000 in neutral without missing a beat.

Up the road for a test (having tightened up the Lumention pins, but no time today for any in depth fault finding). Revs drop to zero, backfire, problem still there. OK, not expecting a miraculous recovery.

Thought I would just remove the dizzy cap and see what was what with the innards etc. But...

I can't seem to remove it as it fouls the bulkhead!! Whaaaaat? Was the requirement to fit the dizzy cap and then install the engine?? Or am I being thick and there is an approved technique for removal? The side-exit cap leaves a gap where road debris can enter under the cap (which I think would be mostly bad, whatever system you use). Then No 3 lead came off in my hand. Lead breakdown? Could be, as I didn't exactly pull it hard. Also the dizzy was pretty hot as I would expect, but I understand this could lead to problems with the Lumenition Optronic unit.

A couple of questions, please, before I see my first born and get Omex/Emerald to just come and sort it out.

Is there a recommended method for removing the dizzy cap, please?

Should I just blank off the dizzy, spend a load of £££ and get an expert to fit 3D ignition, or revert to traditional points set up.

TIA for your thoughts!!

ATB

Jon

(Taxed now, but it's raining, so I don't feel too bad!).

[Westfield 129]

Must be one of those newer chassis... Do you have the polyester foot box bulkhead, or is it alloy?

It's a tight fit in my own new RHD car as well. It is a chinese puzzle. You have to remove the W11 from the distributor cap. It's a Zen thing...

The cap should not be hard against the bulkhead. If it is, you need to move (rotate the block) the engine a little, by loosening the front mounts so you get some clearance, then re tighten them. This should ensure some extra space. This is easier than it sounds.

You might have to rotate the distributor to get the cap off. I have had to do that from time to time.

I have installed crank fired ignition on a couple of cars just to eliminate the problem. However, on my own car, I will stick to the distributor, side exit cap, and eliminate a tuning problem.

I just wiggle the cap around until it comes out. I am using a side exit cap on mine. I am not aware of any gap that would let debris into the distributor, but then I use a plug-in side exit cap (no fixing screws) that I picked up from Pertronix when I spec'd out the distributor. I wash my engine with a pressure washer pretty regularly, and have no problems with water entering the distributor. The fit is pretty good.

This is always a tight fit, but I have yet to find a W11 where the cap would not come off with a little wriggling.

Points are useless.

Crank fired ignition is good, but causes tuning problems until you get the curve corrected.

I would just replace the cap with a side exit one, and move the engine slightly on the mounts to bet more clearance.

If the bulkhead is alloy, smite upon it mightily a few times until you get adequate clearance. I suggest that you remove the distributor when doing this.

Another possibility, if the offending bulkhead is alloy, is to remove the panel, and re mount it inside the foot box. That will give you a full inch of clearance, without using a hammer. I did this on my RHD car to make room for the 5 speed. Much nicer than the hammer smacking... However, this is usually done when the engine is out of the car.

[erictharg]

Pretty much what Jan said! The side entry cap on mine is a bit of a wiggle to remove and fit, but there's just enough clearance between it and the side of the footwell. Given Westfield tolderances I'm not surprised you could end up with the cap hard up against the footwell.
Of course, to remove the distributor, you first need to remove the cap to get headroom to pull it out....
Matthew will tell you to go Megajolt. I'm with Jan - I don't think the stock set up (with suitable electronic aid) is bad enough to justify £300+ of programmed ignition set up. Plus all of those wires and connectors waiting to fail. But then Matthew is still intent on supercharging, and that's where his progammable set up sensing inlet pressue will be worth the money.

[Westfield 129]

My experience with crank fire ignition is that the components are a crap shoot. Sometimes, there are connector problems, or the mounting of the pickup. Other times, it is internal components, but most of the time it is getting the right advance curve. While the advance curve adjustment is infinite, that only makes it harder to come up with something that works properly. I think that once sorted, the system would be fine ,maybe...

The distributor is just plug and play. You can order a common racing curve and you are ready to go. Add the Pertronix pickup and it becomes maintenance free.

Crank fire is better, but in the after market, it is just a bit diffucult to make it actually work better.

[sgrant]

Mine's very, very tight too. I originally didn't have the side-entry cap, and I found I had to undo the engine mount bolts and jack the engine slightly to get the cap off. I've got the side-entry cap now, but it's a horrid fiddle and it's usually around the time that I've decided it's jammed, that it frees up and comes off.

I have an Aldon distributor in an original size (45D?) housing. Basically I just fit whatever Charles tells me to

stephen

[adamwilkinson]

Ahh the joys of having an 80's chassis, we have no issue with space around our dizzy - lots of fresh air...

I dont mean to rub it in. It does look like the newer chassis' have narrower footwells allowing for a bigger transmission tunnel which in turn allows the engine to be mounted further back leading to this obvious tightness you guys are experiencing.

[jonclancy]

Thanks guys. Ordering a service set now and will give the motor a shove.

The Evo team used a shim on the engine mount. Should be done on Sat when I get my hands on the bits.

[erictharg]

If you have screw terminals it sounds as if you still have the original 25D4 distributor. I'd be inclined to ditch it in favour of a fresh 45D unit from Aldon, unless it has been re-furbished and re-curved for a hotter engine. I think that the side entry caps for the 45D might also be a little lower profile that for the 25D. To Aldon's credit they have sent me a fresh unit to replace the one they'd failed to machine completely. Hopefully get it fitted tomorrow and out for a test.

[jonclancy]

I found I have a 22D and 45D in my spares stash. Somewhat handy.

Currently gunking off all the crud that has accumulated over the years.Wow!! Heavens have just opened!!

Once the dizzy is cleaned up (and it's stopped pouring!!), I'll try to rotate the engine and free the cap. Might find where the probelm is at that point, but research suggests the Lumenition could be at fault.

As my spares have arrived (for the earlier dizzy, though), I can make up the 45D with new points, condender etc and drop it in.

Sounds simple enough!!!

[jonclancy]

Interesting time. I cleaned off the 45D, but have no suitable points or cap for it. Had another look at that dizzy cap and by rotating the dizzy and displacing the Lumenition unit cables, I managed to get the cap off! The lead that broke left the end in the cap, so I'll remake that. But...

I found two little wrinkles that I wanted to share!!

Off to take some photos now, but I know exactly why the ignition was a bit flakey!