Westfield Elevens

Found on Preloved.co.uk

http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/ ... ngine.html

it'sbeen for sale for a few weeks, ad updated 3 days ago, so might be open to an offer?

Don't know if it will fit but I bet it's grunty enough!!

Basically the same engine as the Esprit. It's not small (Vauxhall designed it for saloon cars in the late sixties) and cooling might be tricky. Still, in my Esprit GT3 (the very last one built and hence the last car fitted with the 900 series engine!) it produced 240hp in 2 liter form. For the Sport 300, with 2.2 liters and a bigger turbo, it produced..........300hp.

This was my No.1 choice for an A Series replacement. I was all hot to go buy one to check it would fit. Done all the research. But then talked to QED who were one of the specialists who still provide parts for the 907/8 engines and they advise it is seriously heavy.
Not what I'd expected from the design and construction. And they had no axe to grind - could have sucked my in and sold me shit loads of bits...but when I told them what it was to go in they reckoned it was way too heavy.

So I'm back to a Cross flow Ford as No. 1 replacement option. I know it will fit. Parts are still reasonable. And it's in keeping somewhat with the car's vintage. Carb's, distributor etc.

I still think there's mileage in a 7 port head on the A Series though. Jan reckons it won't fit, but I'm going to ask MED for some dimensions for their variant. Even if you had to cant the engine over a few degrees. It's a question of how much more torque it gives below 7K. As I don't plan to invest in a billet crank, rods and forged pistons for the A Series.

I had a close look in the a**e of a 2.2 Turbo Esprit this morning. That engine didn't look all that heavy to me. Where do you think that weight is coming from?

I measured an overall height of 600mm, which is is the same ballpark as a BMC isn't it? I have not correct measurements for the latter. Can you give us some figures?

With the 7 port head, you will have to cant the engine, or cut out a frame member. Also, with the 7 port, the distributor is not accessible on a RHD car. The head will improve power throughout the range, but I am not sure that it will fit. Also, it is likely that all the 7 port heads are the same, so MEDs version is the same one that we get here. And, if you cant the engine, the carbs will go through the bonnet.

The X Flow will fit, but it is quite a bit heavier than the BMC A series. We agonized over this, and I seriously considered fitting an X Flow into my XI, but in the end, I didn't find much of an advantage. In the end, you get about 125 HP from an X Flow in road trim. That's about the same as what I get from my A series, without having to go through heroics to get the engine to fit beneath the bonnet, and saving about 100 lbs (all on the nose) at the same time.

There seems to be two engines that really work well. The BMC A, and the FWB Climax.

Agree that the 7 port is not as straightforward as it looks Jan.

However, I had a good conversation with Lotusparts today. They are the biggest breaker and supplier of the later Lotus' that use the 907 - 912 engines. Much more promising than QED's feedback.
Lotus 907 engine with all ancillaries, clutch & flywheel weights 230 kg. So, whilst about 22kg heavier than the A Series, it's not bad for a 2.0 or 2.2 litre engine. I plan to go and see them, ideally in the Eleven, as part of my pre-season shakedown runs to discuss further and do some measuring. They're near Warwick so only just over an hour away from me. They advise a stock tuned 912 (later 2.2 litre version) engine but with the 2 litre crank would be a good start with a reliable 150 to 160 HP, and the ability to give a lot more. They have a 2.2 in their Lotus Sunbeam rally car that give 280hp and has done 24 events in one season without needing attention.
So the idea of a real Lotus engine (the only real Lotus engine in fact) in an Eleven lives for a while yet.
Say hello to corner entry understeer and lots of exit power on oversteer....
Of course I'd have to graft in that narrowed Caterham De Dion rear I keep thinking about too.

Will keep you posted.

The question of engine height is still a problem, even with the laydown configuration. Dry sumping may still be needed.
22 Kg is not that much, especially if you dry sump the engine, and put the oil in the back, along with the battery. Then, if the driver goes on a diet to lose 22 KG... it's all neutral.

Also, install an alloy flywheel, and probably lose close to half that weight increase. Smaller Alternator should get rid of a few lbs more. Tube header... a couple 'more. When you are done, the difference will be closer to 10kg, if not less. There are other places to lose weight in the installation. Light weight double pass radiator that I use weighs 1Kg compared to the 3.5kg of the stock spridget rad. With the tubes on the same side of the radiator, the hose runs can be shorter and less complex, which saves another kg if you are careful. A smaller fan is required for the much smaller but far more efficient radiator, so you save another kg.

It appears that the weight distribution change might be in the range of 1~2%, which is not bad, and probably wont cause the handling problems you describe if you are careful with the spring rates, dampers and the caster/camber numbers.

Lowering the roll center in the rear will increase the grip back there. With an LSD, you may be able to get a reasonably neutral chassis. It will all come down to the front tire size, and your ability to get the most out of a 450X15, or perhaps the slightly wider Vintage FV tires. Of course, you can go to light weight 13" wheels and tires as well, along with a longer final drive.

The idea of the 907/912 engine is interesting. What is the engine height compared to the A series? How about the location of the center line when it fits into the chassis? Any problems of engine Vs. Transmission and Bellhousing?

Those last questions are exactly what I aim to answer with a visit to Lotusparts. The one's I have seen look as if they'll fit. But, as you say, there are a lot of potential foul points. Gearbox would be Ford Type 9 I'm thinking, and we know that fits the tunnel, as long as it can be reasonable central. Who knows - might even get rid of that offset you need with the A Series for the distributor to clear.
Already running on 13" wheels (and 185/70 radials or 450M13 CR65's) but with that much torque an LSD will be essential, as opposed to desirable at present.
Will keep you posted.

erictharg wrote:

> So the idea of a real Lotus engine (the only real Lotus engine in fact) in
> an Eleven lives for a while yet.


So, you'll be installing the Type 918 then? The four-pot engine was just a redevelopment of the Vauxhall Magnum engine. The 350hp, twin-turbo, 3.5 liter V8 was wholly Lotus. I part-exed the Esprit GT3 for a year-old V8GT. Not as light or nimble, but Christ did it shift!!!

Although the 907-912 series shares it bore centres with the Vauxhall, and does use he same crank, it is not otherwise the same as the Vauxhall engine. Die cast aluminium block, ladder frame bottom end, wet linered, 16 V head etc...

And the V8 is a decendent of the 912, so I guess also qualifies.

Alas V8 and Eleven really not a good mix. Although there was a Buick engined 15 out there at one time, so Rover is possible...exhausts would be a nightmare though.