Winged Sump

[biggles]

Next issue of PPC mag features a how to chop your sump pan article, if any use?
I have a different prob- how to get a dry sumped motor safely going again after 20 years sitting!

[jonclancy]

If I'm near a newsagent, I'll look out for it. Thanks for the tip.

WRT your motor, I would go with system flush and dry cranking, initially. Watch your starter motor limits, mind.

FCOM refers.

But, if you want expert advice: either wait here a bit, post a request on the vintage Motorsport forums, of just get some fresh petrol and cane her back into life!!!

Or just ask at Passionford.

[Westfield 129]

You can use an engine pre lubricator to bring up the oil pressure prior to cranking.

I don't think that a "flush" would be useful, you should take a look at the pan and scavage pumps and screens for any FOD.

Make sure that the pumps and lines are full of oil so that they pump as soon as cranking starts.

You don't want to wash any oil off of the bearing surfaces.

[adamwilkinson]

Firstly, does the engine turn over by hand?

i'd remove the drysump sump belt and spin the pump by hand to prime the pipes, also pour oil into the engine as well as the drysump tank so that the scavenger pump can get a little lubrication. If you can, maybe fit a battery drill to the pump to spin it faster and help get some pressure up - obviously depends on access.
Remove plugs and squirt a little oil in the bores and spin engine on starter motor until you get pressure building. Stick plugs back in and try again to see if it fires.

Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs.

Also before all that i'd change the fluids, water, petrol, oil.

[biggles]

All advice gratefully received! First have to sort the carbs, then will look at cleaning out, priming, and gently coaxing the sleeping banshee to life....

[jonclancy]

Update:

I've measured and can confirm the pick-up pipe is 9/16". I need to sweat off the bracket to measure the angles and my propane torch is probably not up to the job.

Once the bracket and olive/fitting on the other end are off, it'll be an easy job to work out new angles to bend the pipe to.

I may try mocking up with 15mm copper rather than bending and rebending the pipe.

From there, it'll be a simple measurement to cut and shut the sump. Or indeed, calculate the volume removed and return it via a wing.

[jonclancy]

My torch here is man enough for starting the BBQ/killing weeds, but not man enough to sweat the brazed bracket off the pipe. No probs, we'll get to that later.

I was going to drop the prototype sump off to get it chopped, but can't get to it until I get the Eleven rolling again. Not difficult, but thwarted by a W124 coolant leak that required urgent attention. Hopefully I'll update later on this week, or the early part of next week.

[jonclancy]

"Fire, Fire, Fire! A fire has been reported in Building 107." As the Tannoy used to go every now and again in a past life!

We got the Oxy/Acet fired(!) up today and had a go at the oil pick up pipe. Lots of glowing metal later, and we had the bracket off and I have just finished with the blowtorch removing the olive. It's been worth the effort, as I reckon we'll be able to lose an inch off the sump just by modding (shortening) the pick up pipe and refabricating the bracket (it didn't like being heated and twisted - it's showing signs of fatigue, but we'll need to rebend and put new mounting holes in it anyway).

The pipe is 5/8" steel with a compression olive on one end. I can find the olives cheapish online. We won't need to bend the pipe as there is nearly 1/2" flex at the fastener end and nearly 1" if we move the bracket and flatten the strainer. For info, the pipe has 86mm centres, 48mm rises at each end and a 105mm centre section. I haven't got a protractor to hand, but can measure the angle if anyone would like that info. If the pipe was remanufactured with a more acute angle, there could be even more lost off the sump, but I expect you'd start to need baffles and definitely a "wing" or two.

Once the XI is mobile again, and I can get to them again, I'll run the spare block and sump/parts to the workshop and we'll see what we can come up with. Might go with a folded steel cassette to maintain oil volume, or just a cut and shut.

I know of one other XI owner who might be interested in modding his sump. Anyone else out there looking for a lower-cost solution for avoiding the crunch of speed-bumps etc.?

Edit: the angle is 35 Deg.

[jonclancy]

We're making rapid progress here.

A prototype has been roughly fabricated. We're looking at losing around 30mm from the sump bottom, but using a wing or two to retain capacity. Plus baffles and a windage tray.

If this goes to plan, we should be able to replicate these for anyone who would like one. Haven't a clue on cost at the moment, but much less expensive than a dry sump, or indeed the alternatives mentioned earlier in the thread.

The idea is to re-use the oil pick up and filter mesh - new bracket and winged section for the sump. The whole assembly will the be soda-blasted to clean up and provide a key.

We're considering powder coating, painting and passivated zinc plating. I want to be absolutely sure that there is no chance of any internal finish we use degrading. My original sump appeared to have painted internals, but will be happy to accept guidance here.

I'm away with work this weekend, but will be back at the workshop on Monday and will be able to post some pics of how the mod is progressing.

I know of one XI owner who is interested in one of these sumps. Anyone else??

Cheers

Jon

[Westfield 129]

Plated works, as does bare metal on the inside.

I usually plate the whole thing, or leave the inside bare metal, and paint the outside. I don't think that rust will be a problem inside the pan.