Toyota 4AGE into Eleven will go (one way or another)

[erictharg]

Roller coaster continues! Collected all the bits Thursday, and a bill for £970. Had to re-paint the block - it had been through the cleaner so many times most of the paint was flaking off. Then fitted the new screw plugs to the crank oilways. Loctite and peened for safety. Fitted the crank into the block - all feels nice and smooth. Lots of priming oil in all the galleries! Careful refitting of piston rings to pistons. Then fitting the pistons to the rods. The piston pins are floating secured with a round wire circlip each end. Whilst working out the best way to fit them the first one goes "ping" and flies across the workshop. Can I find it? No way. So I now have only 7 of the 8 clips I need. Idiot! Ebay shows the clips are available from Wiseco in the USA and also locally in the UK. Ordered from both as insurance. Meanwhile fitted the rear seal carrier and the oil pump, and now waiting for one of the clip orders to show up. So much for getting the engine all built up this weekend. Some good news on HANS: MSA scrutineer happy that as my registration document says first reg 1970 the vehicle qualifies as pre 1976, so ! don't have to run HANS.

[erictharg]

The saga continues. Got my circlips and fitted the missing one. Assembly went smoothly after that. Once installed cranked until oil pressure showed then fired it up. Ran OK with good oil pressure. However, first road test showed up what sounds like a tapping when under load. Checked valve clearances again (all fine) and compressions (to eliminate a head gasket leak) and again all cylinders the same and healthy. Got a couple of other guys I know to listen and we all thought (or convinced each other) we could head a ticking / tapping. So,with a heavy heart I set about removing the engine again. Got it down to about 90mins now. Then stripped the head and sump off, and removed the rod caps. All looked fine. Pulled one of the main bearing caps (even though it was not a main bearing noise) and it all looked pristine. No marks on any valves or pistons. Called my machinist and will take the rods / pistons to him tomorrow for a further opinion, but otherwise stumped. Pleased there's no damage or anything obvious, but perplexed. Order two more head gaskets (better have a spare - but £75 each!) and all being well will re-assemble Thursday. Have to say that despite the perceived noise it pulled well on the first road test, even with half throttle and 4000rpm.

[Westfield 129]

Did you take a really close look at the exhaust manifold gasket and the manifold? A very small leak makes a ticking or tapping sound. Often, the evidence of the leak can't be seen at first. Just the sound.

I have seen engines taken apart for this very problem.

Also, did anyone take a stethoscope to the thing and try to localize the sound? Even a long screwdriver can help to localize the noise.

Check the piston to cylinder clearances, check the oil pump.

Of course, check the thrust washers/bearings for the crank shaft, the end play, and the piston pins.

Lots of places that can make a noise. Most are easy to check.

[erictharg]

Jan - I have to say I think you are spot on. My machinist is happy with the rods and pistons (as was I) - nothing unusual at all. Some evidence on the moly coating on the piston skirts that there is still some small debris in the engine (slight marking / scoring) somewhere but I can sort that out. Otherwise the only reasonable explanation is exhaust noise. But I'm glad I took the time to pull and strip the engine as I'm now happy and confident all is well. And now I can wring the knackers off the thing!

[erictharg]

OK - noise finally sorted. It was piston to head contact. Not as bad as it sounds. When I first assembled the engine the pistons were 0.3mm above the block at TDC. Given a 0.8mm MLS head gasket that was safe: 0.5 clearance. But when my machinist salvaged the parts after the seize he elected to take a skim off the top of the block deck face. Not needed...but there you go.
So now my pistons were 0.65 - 0.70 above the block with a 0.8 gasket. So when static no contact. But once you get to any significant RPM stretch plus piston rock gives the slightest touch. And only on the exhaust stroke as on compression the forces push the piston away from the head. Hence suspecting valve train.
In practice it really could have rattled on indefinitely! But I've got a 1.5mm MLS gasket ordered that will sort it. Hopefully all back together Thursday and some serious bedding in road miles. Snag now is that all my local rolling roads are booked up (everyone panicking before their first race) so I may have to do the first race without set up on the rolling road. Not ideal but the jetting doesn't seem a mile out. No massive flat spots and no over-fuelling. If I set the advance conservatively (28 deg I'm thinking) we should be OK. 18 months messing about and it comes down to the last few days. As Ever.

[Simon Marks]

Hi,
I'm enjoying reading this thread - particularly as my original idea when embarking into Eleven building was to use a 4A-GE engine and box that I had at the time of ordering (left over from a Sunbeam rally car). However, I was then advised that going Midget would make more (financial and less hassle) sense so here I am, nearly finished and on the cusp of applying for my IVA test.
I noise tested the car the other day and ended up at 104dB(A) at 4,000 rpm so am now looking at alternative silencers. I see yours does not look like the standard Westfield item. What, please, have you used and how is it doing?
Many Thanks
Simon

[erictharg]

Simon - silencers are always difficult. The A series was always "on the limit". Ahem...thank you mister scrutineer. Sir.
I run a Flowmaster HP2 silencer (cost £180 'ish from DT) which still only just about got me to 105dBA on a good day. Tried all sorts of other options. Fortunately the series I run in can go to 107 dBA for sports cars so I've never actually been refused a race. I'll be interested to see how the Toyota fares vs. the A series. I'm thinking it is a fundamentally more efficient engine so more energy should go to output and less to noise. I'll let you know after the first race!
Got the head back on today with a stock Toyota gasket (1.3mm thick) so the noise now gone. Plenty of other noises of course, as befits a stiffly mounted race engine. Another 10 miles of bedding in done. Should be at the safe point to switch to synthetic race oil now. The bores were looking good when the head was off. No polishing.
Then just a question of road miles until the rolling road which I've got booked on the 5th May. Not my usual Northampton Motorsport (booked up until 31 May!), AE Lynx who are actually closer to me, but I've not used them before. Engine nicely oil tight so far. Rocket gearbox less so. Leaks just as the Midget box did. After today's run the plugs looked fine, and no major flat spots, so not too far out on jetting. Car is very different now to drive. Brakes heavy but immediate (twin master cyls). Throttle heavy and short - squeeze rather than push. Like a gun trigger! Clutch also heavy. Gearshift on the Rocket box even shorter than the Midget and quite stiff / notchy. Gone is the "delicate" drive with your fingertips Eleven. Now much more serious and involving to drive. But it sure pulls well!

[erictharg]

Another 20 plus miles on the road without incident. Have had the confidence to run the engine up to 7000 rpm, and to use full throttle briefly. On the road you can't do either of those for very long now. It is a monster on our bumpy little back roads! No flat spots & pulling very hard from 4000. Happier than the A series driving gently, but any sniff of throttle and it is off like a mad thing. Very Jekyll and Hyde. Very nice indeed!
Started to build up my race day spares kit for the new engine. Timing belt, water pump/ alternator belt, plugs, HT leads, coil etc. A neighbour with a Midget wants to buy all my old A Series spares.
Hopefully the weather will allow another 50 or so miles this weekend and then I'll drain the cheapo 20-50 mineral oil and fill with full synthetic 10-50 race oil ready for the rolling road and first race. Entry submitted.
Also ordered a taper roller bearing kit from Peter May and a pair of new MGB calipers (£86 for the pair!), and Spitfire discs (£39 for drilled and slotted versions). Just need some 1155 MGB pads and then I can offer up everything to see what needs machining for the new brake setup to work. That will have to wait until after the first race though. Can't go changing too many things at once!

[alleggerita]

And the first race is planned for when exactly? i will have to travel to England soon, see if I can combine that with your first outing.

[erictharg]

Hey Jack - not seen you in too long! First race is Silverstone on Sat 17th May. 40 mins with a pit stop (which I think I'll need for fuel). All being well Austen will also be there in his first race (ever) in his newly acquired Taydec. Hope you can make it. Any anyone else who fancies coming along of course.