Jacking Points?

[jonclancy]

This is probably a daft question, but where are the jacking points, please?

I am intending to change the brake fluid using an Eezy-Bleed, and, although I haven't look at it yet, I suspect it'll be an easier job with the wheels removed and the car on axle / chassis stands.

Many thanks!

Jon

[Westfield 129]

You can lift the chassis at any point where there is a frame rail.

I lift the chassis from the front, at any frame rail, especially those that have a vertical element attached.

In the rear, I lift the chassis using a 2X4 on my floor jack, lifting at the row of rivets just forward of the rear axle. You can depend on a row of rivets to indicate that there is a frame rail beneath. As the car is light, a 2X4 is strong enough to lift either end of the car, even if it is not supported all the way across.

I have a pair of 2X4s with dowels that fit into the floor jack when the lift plate is removed. These are chassis width, and are used to jack the chassis, then serve as points to place jack stands.

When I place jack stands on the frame, I use the open frame elements in the front, and in the rear, if your car is missing the rear floor beneath the rear axle. If not, then use the 2X4 across the back, and put the jack stands under that.

You can bleed the brakes front and rear with the wheels installed if you don't have wheel houses in the rear. The front bleed screws are pretty easy to get to.

However, if the car has not been inspected in some time, you may want to remove the wheels and coat the wheel studs (or spline drives) with the appropriate anti seize or grease.

In the rear, remove the rear drums, and check the wheel cylinders, as these often need attention every year or so if the car is not driven, or the brake fluid flushed regularly. Just lift the rubber seal slightly to see if there is any fluid visible. This indicates a leak. Fortunately, brake cylinders are inexpensive. Also take a look at the linings, as well as the axle sea area, l for leakage and lubricant that might be oozing. if you don't find any leakage, then check the diff fluid level. It may be empty!

Prior to lifting the car, remove the rear body section. Then, with the hand brake off, but with the car in gear, rock the car back and forth, looking at the rear axle. If you hear a "clunk", and see the axle housing rotating, with play at the bushings in the trailing arms, you will need new bushings. Also take a look at the rear chassis bolts for the trailing arms. Make sure that they are not also moving when you push the chassis against the engine's compression. Just something else to bother with when looking at the older cars (without the rear arms held in double shear at the chassis end). The rear axle bushings last only a few hundred miles, so most of the time, they need replacing. To replace the bushings, you will need a press. Especially if the bushings have never been changed.

[jonclancy]

I've noticed an occasional clunk on taking up drive, so will need to get underneath for a look. My trolley jack was moving as I was last lifting the car, so think the garage floor carpet off-cut under the parking space will need to go.
Probably nothing major - I had a UJ wear on my GT6 and was a similar symptom.

[jonclancy]

I had a productive day today.

I jacked up the car (front then back) and used Mrs C to keep an eye on the front axle stands as I was jacking the back of the car. Some slight movement, but the front stands were easily knocked back into square with a rubber mallet.

Once the car was safe and absolutely rock solid, I removed the passenger seat, the carpet, undid the harness mounting on the tunnel and that allowed me to lift the tunnel carpet.

All was revealed!! Well, the small acess hatch to the gearbox fill. Using my new oil syringe tool thing I sucked most of the (reasonably clean) oil out and replaced with fresh 20w50. Then I got under the car and looked for the small leak that has been evident. Long story short, the speedo drive pinion looks to be the culprit. I have a new oil seal for that, but the nylon pinion housing has a seal in there, but no sign of a seal retainer. I'll pick one up sometime. That's not the cause of the leak, though. Seems to be weeping from between the casing and the nylon fitting. Probably needs the gasket renewing (if my Moss catalogue diagram is correct). Or the O ring that came with the seal kit. No O rings in any of the diagrams I have here, though.

Got all that back together, and decided to renew the diff oil as well.

Jobs done, but I didn't really locate my clunk. The propshaft UJs seem rock solid, but there is about a 4mm lash on the diff input. I suppose there should be some lash - I'll have a play with the spare 4.22 diff I have here.

I took myself out for a twilight blat around the local Cotswolds - near-empty roads and there was no need for the fleece I took just in case. T-shirt weather! I love driving these little plastic cars at night (my SEiW before); must be the convertible thing.

What a laff!

[erictharg]

If the clunk does not appear to be drivetrain check the rear suspension bushes. If there's a loose bolt or worn bush it can make a noise. Speedo drives are a pain as it's very easy to cross thread the cable nut onto the nylon drive gear housing. I figure an aluminium casing taking way more power than it was ever designed for is going to flex quite a bit, and some leakage from joints is inevitable.

[Westfield 129]

Driveline Clunk? EASY! Basically, there isn't a W11 alive that doesn't need bushings after about 3000 miles, and most have never had the rear bushings replaced.

Here is how you check it.

Remove the rear body shell, or open it up so that you can see the entire rear axle. No need to get underneath, and there is nothing to see.

Put the car in 1st gear. Release the hand brake. Go to the back of the car and rock it fore and aft with the tire and look at the diff housing. Note that it is bobbing up and down, and you hear a distinct CLUNK. Watch the suspension bolts at the chassis end of the trailing arms and see if they are moving, or if the arms are moving against the stationary bolts. Maybe both the bolts and the arms are moving and clunking. The bobbing up and down of the diff nose indicates that the bushings are finished. The clunking is the metal to metal contact at the bolts and the suspension mounts at the axle.

Also, you will see play at the axle from the bushings. This is where the CLUNK comes from, and I am positive that replacing the rear bushings will fix your problem. You will need all 8 rear bushings, along with new nylock nuts, and perhaps new bolts, as occasionally there is rust where the bolt goes through the old bushing. The bushing itself will be destroyed, the rubber ripped to shreds. Usually, the Panhard Rod bush is just fine.

The trick is to install new bolts (Grade 8) with new Nylock nuts, and grease the bolts and the inside of the bushing sleeves. Then, make sure that you don't torque the bolts through the bushings to more than 5 lb.ft when you check the torque of the entire nut/bolt assembly when installed in the chassis. This will allow the bushing to rotate around the bolt, and not shear the rubber. You have to be careful about tightening the forward trailing arm bolts so that they have no play (fore/aft movement), but are not so tight that they clamp the bushing tight. Again, when properly set up, put your torque wrench on the bolt head and the entire assembly should turn at about 5 lb.ft.

This will give a better ride, more predictable handling, and extend the bushing life by more than 3X.

I know, it sounds goofy, but running metalistics so that they rotate has been a setup trick for old tube frame sports racing cars for decades. This is the right way to set up the W11, preserving the bushing and greatly improving ride and handling.

[sgrant]

Thanks Jan, that's really clearly explained - I'm going to have a look at this this weekend.

Many thanks again,

stephen

[jonclancy]

Indeed. Many thanks for the tips Charles, and a comprehensive explanation on setting up the bushes, Jan. This should be in the next edition of the Build Manual, under onward maintenance.

I've got around 1100 miles on the car, so will check this out tomorrow.

On another not, I have just acquired a Moto-Lita wheel similar to the one EVO used (Mk3) - 13" for me, as my legs won't fit otherwise!

Probably going to drive to Thruxton to collect the boss and centre cap. I'm increasing the miles per blat gradually, in preparation for the Revival next month!

[Westfield 129]

Another source of a clunk or rattle in the late chassis occurs when a T9 transmission is used. This is a pretty loud clunk/rattle sound that can be felt in the frame around the foot box.

The lump in the T9 bell housing for the starter can touch the frame by the foot box in RHD cars. The fix is a simple one. Cut off the lump! Cut it flush to the bell housing if you can. A Sawzall will work, followed by a body (disc) grinder. The opening is not a problem, as there are other openings as well in the bell housing.

You will know where to cut if you take a good look around the bell housing near the top quadrant of the housing where it is very close to the frame. You may even be able to duplicate the sound depending on how flexible the engine/trans mounts are, by shaking the engine.