Roll Over Protection

[jonclancy]

Hi All,

A question more for the racers, but I think will have relevance to all of us:

What roll over protection did you employ, how did you install it, is it certified, difficult to fit etc etc??

As No 42 is now in the Loaded Gunn workshops, I am seriously considering some form of roll over protection as I intend to do some track-days with her. And I am probably going to be a crap driver!!

This car is fab - I love the colour!! But I can't help noticing that the driver's helmet is above the fairing.

http://www.sbc100.com/Westfield/

Whereas Charles has plenty of headroom. Do you have a scuttle hoop as well, Charles?

If a scheme can be devised to manufacture a run of approved hoops, would there be any interest from the crowd? I was thinking about seeing if Mike Brotherwood had any thoughts to offer on the subject, too.

All the best,

Jon

[sgrant]

Hi Jon,

I worried about roll-over protection when I got mine. To that end, I had Mike Brotherwood make up a hoop for me. In short, it comes up just in front of the "hump" and connects to the chassis behind the seats and back through the bulkhead. It is braced back through the top of the hump back to the rear of the chassis. The brace pivots at the back point and has a QR pin through where it joins the hoop. So, to remove the rear clam, I remove the pin and then the bracing swivels up with the clam. It works well for me, it's not an eyesore, and I've had a few folk look at it and pronounce it safe (although, of course, that doesn't mean to say that it meets racing regs - in particular, I doubt that the QR pin does). Although Mike did a nice job, it wasn't quite perfectly symmetrical when viewed from the front of the car and the slight asymmetry drove me to distraction. I eventually asked Option One to remake it, using the same mounting points and general idea as the original. They outsourced it to a local welder and, to my eyes, he got it spot on. I can take photos and post them up here if it is useful? If you look at that photo of my car on the trailer in the other thread, you should be able to see the top of the hoop just in front of the hump

stephen

[jonclancy]

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for telling us how you approached this. I was down at the workshop with Gary this morning and asked about a hoop. He offered a few ideas, but there is always the issue of homologation/approval. It seems that there is a well-trodden path of track-dayers becoming serious track-dayers and then on. I haven't the budget for racing, but wonder if I might try a bit of hill climbing in the future.

We discussed a QR pin system to release the rear clamshell to lift it off, rather than tip back. That way the hoop can be welded in onto fabricated brackets. It's an option. I guess option X would be to go to a flat back clam, but many of the considerations remain. I suppose you could always cut the front face of the LM hump and put a headcushion and back board on the hoop to stop the rear calm becoming an airbrake, and still retain the tipping method of opening it...

Detailed pics would be appreciated, thanks. Not only to see the roll-over protection method you used, but also to have a good gander at the Option One paint job and factory re-engineering.

All the best

Jon

[Westfield 129]

The roll hoop slightly forward or around the head rest works well. Make the hoop stout (large diameter tubing), give it a side brace to the opposite side of the cockpit, and a forward brace through the passenger compartment to the lower frame/firewall interface. Make the forward brace removeable and you wont have to move braces around to open the rear body section, and have a useable passenger seat for road use.

The structure should be sound enough to pass any regulations, but you should be reading the regulations in order to choose materials and height, as that information will be spelled out in the roll bar specifications. Rather than worry about what might be approved, or safe, read the regulations and use them as a guide.

[erictharg]

Mine is as close to what the Blue Book requires without making the car look like a NASCAR stocker. The main hoop licks up from the top corners of the frame dropping into two tube sockets that are fitted over the round tube diagonal braces. The forward strut runs to the corner of the pasenger footwell - a good strong node. The one backstay (that messes up the rear clam) is a token gesture to the MSA requirement for two rear struts. It adds minimal stength as there's nothing much behind the bulkhead to tie into.
I was considering paying to have MIRA model and test it to get it certified (£1100 'ish!) but in the end (following an "off the record" conversation with John Sysmes at Race Retro) went with it and have never had anyone at scrutineering give it a second look.
I've no extra hoop under the scuttle. My legs are well below the farme rails and as long as a line from the top of the hoop to the top of the engine clears your helmet OK (50mm?) you don't need a front hoop for a GT type car.
Not as elegant as Stephen's but more likely to get used!
I got RollCentre to supply the tube and bend the main hoop, and did the rest myself.

[adamwilkinson]

We run the ROPS that came with the chassis when my uncle bought the kit (original run), can be seen here http://www.flickr.com/photos/76071680@N ... hotostream and http://www.flickr.com/photos/76071680@N ... hotostream

I do believe that Westfield got dispensation for this ROPS - can you confirm this Chris (if you're reading this). We've only been pulled up on it once by a rookie scrutteneer, chief scrutteneer came over and without batting an eyelid declared it legal due to age of car.

BUT

I must stress that a new build might not pass as the regulations changed which is why Charles has a bigger ROPS.

[jonclancy]

Interesting stuff - thanks for your thoughts all.

AIUI, MIRA will charge you double the £1100 to test a ROPS if it isn't CAD, just drawn. Charles' solution sounds like it is a good way to go. Is it possible to remove your forward strut for road and trackday passenger use, Charles?

As an aside, I heard from Loaded Gunn that my car was ready - double quick time, and my hat's off to them. I'm away with work for a few days now (bah!!) and not able to collect it until early next week. But, I suppose it would be like driving a small swimming pool at the moment! MOT will be booked for next week. Any top tips for checking the gearbox oil level? That's the only think I need to do before the MOT, apart from re-fix the racing mirrors. I can't wait!

[sgrant]

Good luck Jon! I need to get mine MOT'ed now as well, but I really would like it to stop raining first.

No idea how you check the gearbox oil level, sorry, but I thought it might be worth passing on the following; if you are on 13" wheels, and the MOT centre is sticking your car onto rollers to check the brakes, you might want to talk to them about removing the front clam for that bit of the test - it's quite a drop and I worry about the front of the clam as the wheels fall onto the roller. My MOT centre is happy to let me do this, but then again they aren't one of these MOT centres that banishes you to the reception area whilst they do the MOT (in fact, they get me to jump in and operate the controls and drive the car on the rollers).....YMMV and perhaps I just get my knickers in a twist about this and it's all ok, but I certainly won't be risking it this time, not with my new shiny paint!

s

[Westfield 129]

Checking the gear box level is usually done through a port in the side of the tunnel. If you don't have one, cut one.

Otherwise, it is done from underneath, removing the plug and sticking a finger in the hole.

[erictharg]

The forward strut still allows a passenger to fit in OK, so no need to remove for trackday's etc. To get the optimal positon on the hoop I had to add a small kink to the forward strut, but nothing that significantly affects it's strength. If you think about what it needs to do some slight flex is a good thing. No point fixing a massively stiff ROPS to a light and relatively flexible frame.
The strut is bolted at both ends so a 15 min job to remove if you did want to for any reason.
Using the forward stru to brace the hoop should mean a much simpler / less intrusive set up in terms of the rear clam. I'd not have a rear strut other than to pay lip service to the regs. the forward strut is plenty man enough to keep things in place.
As mentioned, there's a convenient square cover plate in the LHS of the trans tunnel you can remove to get access to the filler / level plug on the gearbox. You'll need to peel back the carpet first though.
If you have a ramp you may be able to reach it from underneath.