Handbrake issues...

[Splat]

AKA "Light the blue touch-paper and retire"

It's taken too long, but I've almost finished refurbishing my suspension. I began dismantling in January! New bushes, longer shocks and cosmetic tidying. The car was back on the garage floor on Tuesday and I had a couple of hours yesterday morning, before going to work, to start setting up.

I ballasted the car with my weight in the drivers seat and half of hers in the passenger seat. I then bounced the chassis vigorously to settle everything prior to a first check of the ride height. Doing so at the rear resulted in a nasty rubbing/scraping noise.....

My car was first built in 2005. At the time Westfield couldn't/wouldn't build you a "turn-key" vehicle. Instead, mine was built for its original owner by Jim Bickley. A racing driver with some success in the BTCC, he ran his own race preparation shop and was the factory test-driver for both Westfield and Marcos. By the time that he built my car, he'd had some practice as mine was his fifth build.

As built, the car had the short-travel rear end with the handbrake bar (bar) running above the Panhard rod (rod). The bar was slightly bent to clear. There were no interference issues and the handbrake worked well without the cylinder levers having to be re-drilled.

With the floorpan cut and long shocks fitted, it seemed obvious that the bar would have to run under the rod. That is how I rebuilt it, again with a suitable bend in the bar. With the car back on its wheels, the ride height at the back settled at a natural 6.5" with almost no preload on the springs. But the handbrake balance lever, sometimes called the "swinging-T", is at the exact same height as the rod and no amount of bend in the bar will have it clear, either above or below. The nasty noise as I bounce on the rear of the chassis is the rod scraping along the bar and you can see the RHS drum brake being operated as you do it!

Initial visual inspection suggests that the only (but quite obvious) solution is to extend the height of the balance lever by cutting it and welding-in an extension of a couple of inches, allowing the bar to run above the rod with comfortable clearance. This would have the added advantage of not having to bend the bar which, whilst it works, looks unsightly. I've already purchased another balance lever via eBay as they're no longer available new.

I wonder if anybody else has ever experienced this problem or tried this solution?

[LA 11 builder]

The exact same situation resulted in the exact same solution in the US. It is documented on the Yahoo Westfield eleven site. IIRC, there are a couple of pictures of the modification. The whole thing was a bit of a flashpoint!

[Splat]

I refer you to the subtitle of this topic (the first line of text).

[jonclancy]

So the longer shocks are the cause of the problem???

Pics please, old chap.

[Splat]

Less of the old, please! I'll try to upload some later in the week..........

Edited to add:

Actually, I see your point Jon. With the new shocks and ballasted at the correct ride-height, the relationship between the balance lever and the Panhard rod seems to have changed. The handbrake bar will now neither pass comfortably under, nor over the rod. However, as previously set up, I have no idea if the ride-height was correct, nor did I ever observe their relative positions with the car loaded. All I can say for certain is that, correctly set up and ballasted, bouncing the rear end of my car now results in the RHS drum brake being applied!

[erictharg]

I opted to re-drill the handbrake levers when I built mine. That meant the pull rods just cleared the panhard rod.

[Westfield 129]

Having built 3 late cars with longer dampers, including replacing the long dampers that were standard on the early chassis. I have NEVER had problems with brake rod clearance, or inadvertent uncommanded rear brake application. I have found that it is NECESSARY to re drill the mechanical hand brake levers at the drums in order to get clearance between the Panhard Rod and the brake rods. It was a requirement with the early cars with their 14~15" dampers, and is a requirement for the late cars if you want to install the longer dampers. Interestingly, the drilling is recommended on the late cars. The brake rod photo in the "manual" is not correct, and I suspect that the car was corrected as soon as it was driven.

Such is the builder's life when working with manuals that are not really "factory". It's a small thing, in a manual that is actually quite valuable. However, when you built, don't neglect standards and practices, use common sense.

My car came with long dampers, and was built over 30 years ago. The brake rods are unmodified, and the brake levers are drilled. Everything works, and nothing rattles or hits the Panhard Rod. I think that the secret to installing the long dampers lies in the past, as the W11 builders of yore have already proven. I have kept to the identical, well proved installation standard, and have been rewarded with working hand brakes, no rattles and no contact with the brake rods and Panhard Rod. No Welding!

I have corrected a couple of cars with undrilled mechanical hand brake drum levers (by drilling holes), and was easily able to get adequate clearance between the Panhard Rod and the brake rods, at all possible articulation angles of the rear axle.

If you want to re engineer the hand brake system, go ahead. However, it is not necessary if the drum levers are re drilled, and the brake rods properly positioned, even if you use the long dampers.

The W11 is quite a bit lighter than the Spridget, and even after re drilling the brake levers, there is no authority lost in the hand brake system. The real test is pointing the car up hill, loading it to gross weight, and pulling the hand brake. If the car holds, you have a working brake. If it doesn't, try adjusting the rear brakes with the hand brake rods disconnected, and check the cable adjustment. It works wonders.

[Splat]

Obviously, redrilling the levers would be an easier fix (if it works). How far back from the original pivot-hole is recommended?

[Westfield 129]

1/2~3/4" or so. Enough to put the rods behind the Panhard Rod pivot on the axle. There are plenty of images on the westyxiownersbuildersdrivers site as to where to drill the holes. It's also covered in the private effort build manual.

Feel free to bend the rod adjacent to the axle's Panhard Rod attach point slightly to ensure clearance if you need to.

While it is recommended to shorten the brake rods, this may not be necessary (I have not had to). Try the system out prior doing any cutting.

[Splat]

Well, upon re-inspection, I can confirm that no amount of lever drilling will solve the problem at present.

However..........

I've also received the eBay balance lever, complete with support and carrier, and I note it's subtly different to my set-up. The support (AKA bracket) has a thread that points towards the rear when mounted on the axle,and the carrier is screwed onto this thread with it's own threaded peg pointing upwards. The balance lever is screwed onto, and pivots on, this peg. The carrier of my rather rusty replacement is screwed all the way down to the body of the support, with a nut screwed onto the protruding end of the thread. MY carrier is only screwed to the tip of the thread, meaning that the balance lever is as close to the Panhard rod as it is possible to mount it.

The next move is therefore to remove my whole assembly and see if I can screw the carrier right down until it abuts the body of the support, thus moving it as far from the Panhard rod as possible. Lever-drilling may then have the desired effect.........