So this CAN be done, but will require 15" rims to be built up using the shorter, MG Midget Whub. I've no idea how much "bespoke", painted wire wheels might cost! The most obvious solution would be to mate the pre-drilled, 60-spoke Whub of the Spridget XW458 to the 15x4.5 rim of the 60-spoke XW452. That rim width would suit both front and rear tyres and has the added advantage of resulting in a tubeless wheel. But I really like the look of the 48-spoke wheel.........
For reference here are some picture "pairs" showing the Whubs of the Spridget 60-spoke, 13x4 wheel (XW458) and the 48-spoke, 15x4 wheel (XW450). The 13" wheels is the first in each pair.
Note how the back of the 13" Whub is much flatter:
15" wheels; an alternative?
-
Splat
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:12 am
Re: 15" wheels; an alternative?
- Attachments
-
-
Last edited by Splat on Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Splat
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:12 am
-
Custardbadger
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:58 pm
Re: 15" wheels; an alternative?
Just for info Splat, I had an original wire wheel axle at the rear and standard midget brakes at the front. With this set-up, the only modification required was having a section of the front brake calliper machined down to allow clearances for the rim of the splined hubs. I'll try and get a photo of this alteration to the calliper. Jan has also picked up on this required mod in a couple of other threads and I took his lead on this and have had no problems. Best of luck in sorting your set up - if all else fails you at least know that the wheels will fit with a wire wheel axle and standard front calipers...
Cheers
David
Cheers
David
-
Splat
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:12 am
Re: 15" wheels; an alternative?
Hi David,
I almost dropped you a line last week, knowing that I'd be in HW this weekend. But I figured that it was a little short notice. I'm there not infrequently as one of my best mates is one year into his latest (probably three year) posting to Air Command, RAF High Wycombe, so I'll let you know when I'm next visiting. Excellent food and beer in The Pink and Lily, Princes Risborough last night, BTW.......
Yup, I'm aware of Jan's calliper butchery! I've never had the standard Midget callipers and the 13" wires fitted at the same time, so I've no idea what the standard clearance between the Midget calliper and the 13" Midget Whub is. What I DO know is that with the MGB callipers fitted, the 13" Midget Whub fits perfectly. But, in the photos at the foot of page 4 of this thread, the 15" Whub is touching the calliper, the Whub is NEARLY fully-seated on the Shub, yet the threads are nowhere near protruding. To have enough thread protruding would require a HUGE cut into the calliper, and I'm still not sure that enough thread would be protruding before the Whub is fully seated on the Shub.
More mystifyingly, I don't know why the 15" Whubs don't fit the Midget rear Shubs. Ignore the disc-wheel axle casting and the hybrid half-shaft red herring; the mechanical make-up of the Shub/brake drum assembly is standard, wire-wheel Spridget. (See the photo below!) The 13" Spridget Whub fits perfectly, sitting snug-up against the brake drum, with plenty of thread protruding for the spinners.The 15" Whub sits ON the drum-retaining nuts, standing-off from the drum and with no thread protruding. Ive just been out to the garage to try it again. Both sides. Same result........ Puzzling!
I almost dropped you a line last week, knowing that I'd be in HW this weekend. But I figured that it was a little short notice. I'm there not infrequently as one of my best mates is one year into his latest (probably three year) posting to Air Command, RAF High Wycombe, so I'll let you know when I'm next visiting. Excellent food and beer in The Pink and Lily, Princes Risborough last night, BTW.......
Yup, I'm aware of Jan's calliper butchery! I've never had the standard Midget callipers and the 13" wires fitted at the same time, so I've no idea what the standard clearance between the Midget calliper and the 13" Midget Whub is. What I DO know is that with the MGB callipers fitted, the 13" Midget Whub fits perfectly. But, in the photos at the foot of page 4 of this thread, the 15" Whub is touching the calliper, the Whub is NEARLY fully-seated on the Shub, yet the threads are nowhere near protruding. To have enough thread protruding would require a HUGE cut into the calliper, and I'm still not sure that enough thread would be protruding before the Whub is fully seated on the Shub.
More mystifyingly, I don't know why the 15" Whubs don't fit the Midget rear Shubs. Ignore the disc-wheel axle casting and the hybrid half-shaft red herring; the mechanical make-up of the Shub/brake drum assembly is standard, wire-wheel Spridget. (See the photo below!) The 13" Spridget Whub fits perfectly, sitting snug-up against the brake drum, with plenty of thread protruding for the spinners.The 15" Whub sits ON the drum-retaining nuts, standing-off from the drum and with no thread protruding. Ive just been out to the garage to try it again. Both sides. Same result........ Puzzling!
- Attachments
-
-
Splat
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:12 am
Re: 15" wheels; an alternative?
Credit to Westfield136 (you, Jan?) on the former, "dormant" Yahoo group. Knew I'd seen a snap of a modded calliper somewhere. I think that the MGB callipers would need a MUCH deeper cut.
- Attachments
-
-
jonclancy
- Posts: 943
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:30 pm
Re: 15" wheels; an alternative?
I think your Whub depth is the problem, as your pix show.
We specced our own bushes. Why not get a spec put together for an XI 15" wheel? I assume these are all hand assembled by MWS, so can't think it would be a huge prob in grabbing a different centre for a 15" wheel...
Whaddya reckon?
We specced our own bushes. Why not get a spec put together for an XI 15" wheel? I assume these are all hand assembled by MWS, so can't think it would be a huge prob in grabbing a different centre for a 15" wheel...
Whaddya reckon?
-
Splat
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:12 am
Re: 15" wheels; an alternative?
Just a brief addendum; I was slightly mistaken about the rear fitment. Just like at the front, the Whub should sit on the concave land of the Shub. This leaves a gap between the rear of the Whub and the brake drum; not a snug fit against the drum as I'd previously stated! All three wheels fit so, it's just that the Whubs of the 15" wheels are too long for the threads to protrude......
I've asked Craig to investigate making-up 48-spoke, 15" wheels with the Spridget Whub. Don't think it's gonna be cheap!
I've asked Craig to investigate making-up 48-spoke, 15" wheels with the Spridget Whub. Don't think it's gonna be cheap!
-
jonclancy
- Posts: 943
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:30 pm
Re: 15" wheels; an alternative?
Could you also get a price for a 60 spoke too, please Splat?
If they are off the shelf components, I can't see where the extra cost lies... plus it opens up a market.
If they are off the shelf components, I can't see where the extra cost lies... plus it opens up a market.
-
Redmax
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:51 pm
Re: 15" wheels; an alternative?
I'm yet to buy wheels but would really like 15s, so if there's a bulk discount on something that will definitely fit then I'd be up for it.
Cheers
Jason
Cheers
Jason
-
Westfield 129
- Posts: 867
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:20 am
Re: 15" wheels; an alternative?
Yes, that's the last caliper I modified. Sent it to the machinist and had it milled. Quick and easy. I have also done this with a rotary file or hand grinder.
As for the wheels...
The threads don't have to protrude beyond the wheel hub, as the knockoffs fit OVER the wheel when fully home, the knock off threads prodrucing into the wheel hub for engagement. You have 5 threads or so of (recommended) engagement available, and the hubs tighten down prefectly well. You can use off the shelf wheels.
With the larger center hubs on 15" wheels, you will have to elongate the already cast-in relief that exists in the standard Spridget calipers. Hardly butchery. You can do this with a rotary file, angle grinder, hand file or mill.
In the rear, the wheels attach and tighten up just perfectly, with the load being taken by the hub, and not by the brake drum. It's the contact between the hub and the wheel that makes the fittment solid and centered.
Note that your balancing instructions require taper adapters to be used on the back side of the wheel into the spline hub, and over the front of the hub, like the knockoff. This is the only way to center the wheel for mounting, and balancing.
You can assemble 15" wheels with spridget hubs, and they are not silly expensive, but, it is a waste of time and money. You will end up with a custom wheel that you can't buy over the counter should you bend one.
You can get the wheels you need in 15" already made up, off the shelf, for a reasonable price.
Sure, you have to file the calipers a little. Not much of a job. 'Certainly worth the trouble.
I have done quite a few 15" conversions. A few of the cars have done substantial miles, and none have had a problem with wheel attachment, centering or looseness. The knock offs engage properly, regardless of what wheel you use.
As for the wheels...
The threads don't have to protrude beyond the wheel hub, as the knockoffs fit OVER the wheel when fully home, the knock off threads prodrucing into the wheel hub for engagement. You have 5 threads or so of (recommended) engagement available, and the hubs tighten down prefectly well. You can use off the shelf wheels.
With the larger center hubs on 15" wheels, you will have to elongate the already cast-in relief that exists in the standard Spridget calipers. Hardly butchery. You can do this with a rotary file, angle grinder, hand file or mill.
In the rear, the wheels attach and tighten up just perfectly, with the load being taken by the hub, and not by the brake drum. It's the contact between the hub and the wheel that makes the fittment solid and centered.
Note that your balancing instructions require taper adapters to be used on the back side of the wheel into the spline hub, and over the front of the hub, like the knockoff. This is the only way to center the wheel for mounting, and balancing.
You can assemble 15" wheels with spridget hubs, and they are not silly expensive, but, it is a waste of time and money. You will end up with a custom wheel that you can't buy over the counter should you bend one.
You can get the wheels you need in 15" already made up, off the shelf, for a reasonable price.
Sure, you have to file the calipers a little. Not much of a job. 'Certainly worth the trouble.
I have done quite a few 15" conversions. A few of the cars have done substantial miles, and none have had a problem with wheel attachment, centering or looseness. The knock offs engage properly, regardless of what wheel you use.